Welcome back to the Grey Dynamics Podcast. This week we welcome back Raymond White, a former CIA senior case officer with over 25 years of experience in the field. Raymond spent his entire career as a case officer focusing on counter-proliferation and counter-terrorism, earning the nickname “The Snow Leopard” within the agency.

He also served as head of the CIA’s enterprise training program for aspiring case officers. Raymond has now created what he describes as the most comprehensive Human Intelligence (HUMINT) course available anywhere.

We spoke about the course structure, the psychology and ethics of espionage, historical case studies like Oleg Gordievsky, who the course is designed for, and the potential for in-person training.

Find Raymond White:

• Grey Dynamics
• Human Intelligence Fundamentals Course (coming soon)

We Spoke about:

• 0:00 – Ray’s background as a 25+ year CIA case officer
• 2:00 – Introduction to the Human Intelligence Fundamentals course
• 3:00 – Course comprehensiveness and what makes it unique
• 5:00 – Topics not typically covered: psychology, ethics, and history of espionage
• 7:00 – The future of HUMINT and lessons from intelligence failures
• 8:00 – Agency publication review board approval process
• 9:00 – Extensive reading materials and bibliography
• 11:00 – Using historical case studies like Oleg Gordievsky to bring concepts to life
• 13:00 – Authentic learning through real-world examples
• 14:00 – Balancing academic content with practical experience
• 15:00 – Hollywood portrayals vs. reality of intelligence work
• 16:00 – How espionage is portrayed in media and popular culture
• 17:00 – Multi-service approach: learning from CIA, MI6, FSB, and others
• 19:00 – Learning outcomes and who should take the course
• 20:00 – What is a collector and why HUMINT applies to many professions
• 22:00 – HUMINT as “the second oldest profession”
• 24:00 – Bringing work home: applying tradecraft in everyday life
• 26:00 – Potential for in-person training and workshops
• 28:00 – Universal principles of human intelligence across history
• 31:00 – Final thoughts and course availability
• 33:00 – Upcoming workshop announcement

Related Links:

• Former Senior CIA Officer Raymond White on HUMINT and Training the Next Generation – Episode 56
• Former CIA Collection Management Officer with Esther Atwell on Life
• Senior CIA Ops Officer John Atwell on Culture Change, Working with Five Eyes and Career Advice
• From the Defence Human Intelligence Unit to Recruitment with Mack
• Australian Intelligence, Demystifying HUMINT and Mental Health with D. – Episode 35
• Former German Military HUMINT Operator Christoph Stegemann – Episode 58

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